It is important to state clearly that all the information given here is solely about our experience, observations and honest opinions while being involved with the Leonberger breed for the last 15 years. And following our old enemies, the breeders of our first four Leonbergers, who had started a well documented vendetta against us in 2010. They joined the club committee in 2013, although had not even been club members ( as we had been) for many years, we knew that our membership was in jeopardy. It took just a few months before the secretary was writing accusing us of being untruthful on our website. Something that when asked for evidence, she was unable to substantiate. In a working environment, it would have been classified as constructive dismissal! With hindsight, maybe we should have informed the KC about the underhand tactics being used by them? The secretary did forward to us copies of our correspondence to the owners of our puppy that was killed, story of Jenson below, of which we had stated that our ex-friend, their new breeder and committee member for welfare, had disposed of more than 50% of her dogs when she moved back to the UK. It was completely truthful and nothing that was not in the public domain at that time. We can only guess as to why the club would not want puppy owners having this information? It is our opinion that someone who rids themselves of so many dogs in this disrespectful way, isn't fit to serve on a welfare committee. Since this time, it appears that at least a further 3 dogs have also been re homed by the same breeder. Website no longer live!
All instances of the abuse that we have received over the years, is documented on this page. No one has ever tried to sue us for what has been written. The truth is not libellous.
So in 2014 and after almost nine years with the Leonberger Club of Great Britain, we ceased our membership. This new committee had one set of rules for themselves and don't lead by example; a group of friends allowing some to hide behind the façade of the club and abuse their trusted positions. One person who was forced to resign for being in breach of club code of ethics, seems to have regained her position, and more friends have joined the committee. A committee who appear more dedicated to vendettas and castigating other breeders, than practicing any passion for the breed they are supposed to love?
(committees change over the years but original people remain)
They seem to approve of prolific re-homing by their committee members and are fully in support of people responsible for putting one of our puppies to sleep in 2013 after failing to ask for our support. They are such ethical people that they went on to sell them further puppies with the knowledge of what they had done to Jenson and put their own puppies at risk, just to spite us. How wonderfully clever of them! The full story of Jenson here.
It seems that most people with the credentials to run the club committee have now left due to unrest within. No longer will you find any of the good old respectable names there, anyone who has tried to join outside of this group of friends have been denied. Anyone with inferior knowledge to this group and who will be agreeable to them can join them. It appears that membership has dwindled in recent years due to this. In our opinion, it's not the respectable organisation that we joined in 2006, and having previously encouraged our new puppy owners to join as members, we would now advise them to keep well away. The very bad language continually used by some on social media is disgraceful, we would certainly expect a better standard of people to represent our breed. We have also been made aware of their disingenuous attention given to some of our puppy owners at fun days with what can only be described as a surreptitious purpose! (since writing this, connective friends have began to pal up with some of our owners as well, we call them foot soldiers) It does make us smile!
It's not just us, other breeders have been informed that too they have been targeted with unfavourable comments.
In 2010, we were informed by one of our puppy owners that someone on the committee at that time, was advising her where she should not buy a puppy from,. This is in breach of their own code of ethics? they tell the breeders in the membership that they must not discredit other breeders. With this in mind, perhaps the benefit for the new committee members is to just promote each other?
It was with utter shock that we heard that one of our puppy owners was invited to a club event in 2013, whose dog had Polyneuropathy and was compared with another dog, his litter sibling with the same diagnosis; it seems a full report was given to the other owner which doesn't say much for the confidentiality of those committee members! It was alleged that when this gentleman contacted the health committee for support, not only was that confidential information passed on to others; but he was made out to be a nuisance. If people wish to make themselves available for advice then they should not complain when they are contacted by people who have concerns about their dogs and need genuine advice from trustworthy people. This boy sadly passed away in 2018.
During 2015 they were under fire by one of the working groups for their high and mighty approach and their lack of consideration to their members.
As explained on our about us page, we have set our own standards based on our own experiences over the years. We will always continue to prioritise health within our breeding and provide a high standard outside the remit of the Leonberger Club of Great Britain. We take no moral cue from any one of them!
Feb 2017 update - On one of the social media groups, there was a gentleman asking for advice on recommendations for breeders. Two of our puppy owners recommended us and another kennel was mentioned from a happy client as well. These people were shot down in flames and told by one LCGB committee member and her close friend, not to mention kennel names and only to go to shows and events, meet people to ask and enquire about Leonberger breeders there. They claimed that people would obviously be biased to whoever they got their Leo from. No, not at all, their recommendation was based on their satisfactory experience. In our opinion, it was an obvious warning to the enquirer, not to go to the breeders that had been recommended, including us. It is with irony that we had previously purchased two dogs from the committee member, one of whom died at five years old. One breeder that we would not recommend, based on our own experience. When they recommend the Club, they are recommending each other.
Another message in the same thread was from a writer after attending a fun day organised under the umbrella of the LCGB. She mentioned that she had attended a fun day in Wiltshire and while no one recommended a breeder, some discreetly advised who to steer clear of.
So this is evidence that their disgraceful behaviour of underhand tactics, bad mouthing some breeders and being in breach of their own code of ethics is still going on. They are bullies! and using the Club to hide behind yet again.
As recent as 2018, we have been informed that someone on the health committee is still defaming other breeders during telephone conversations to owners of those breeders dogs. They don't seem to learn by their mistakes.
We strongly advise anyone who has experienced this unethical practice at club events, on social media or in any conversation to put a complaint in writing to both LCGB, the Kennel Club and to also inform the breeder they troll.
We were told in October 2018 that a long term member of the club also made a written derogatory comment about us. Someone who doesn't know us and who has never been to our home seems to be able to form an opinion that puppies that we import, aren't coming to a good home. Some people need to be very careful when castigating others, they could end up with a libel case for defamation of character to defend!
On three occasions that we know of over the years, we have had disingenuous visitors who have been sent here purporting to be interested in a puppy from us. We don't know who has sent these people, but when they actually name a person and wait for our response, it does seem suspicious. Even more so to learn that not long after, we find from the Leonberger Stud Book, where they have actually purchased a puppy from. Follow the link above to find all breeders, their litters and their buyers.
We are pretty transparent in giving our information through this website, it's difficult to understand why people find the need to be devious? They certainly have too much time on their hands to go to these extremes.
2019, other breeders report being in receipt of derogatory comments by committee members and also on the Discover Dogs stand at Crufts, it would seem this is a new place to castigate some breeders. We have actually witnessed this ourselves when we were in favour, once upon a time........ it has always been the case with some of them.
We are highly honored if any of our puppy owners recommend us on any social media groups. Do not stop this if it is allowed on the group, or be afraid to mention us for fear of bullies. It is rather odd that other countries have no problem with breeders being recommended, but in the UK, just this small group mentioned here always object. This shows the type of people we have in the breed and proves to the general public that it must be of great inconvenience when people who they dislike, are getting good reports.
While we are far from perfect, we do our very best to make our puppy owners feel happy with the service that we provide as breeders. We have shown our dedication to our breed through our actions, travelling across Europe in the name of Genetic Diversity. It would have been much simpler to use a dog close by for convenience, no travelling for hours on end, days away from home and less expense!
We are pleased that this is recognised by our many genuine visitors and is the reason that we don't need to advertise our puppies. Long may this continue.
We care only about our own dogs, their health, our breeding and the future of the breed. Others should put more effort in to their own breeding and their own dogs health etc.
2020: And the beat goes on.....We try our best to keep ourselves to ourselves, we do our own thing with little involvement with others in the breed. We have interest only in our own breeding and have nothing to say about anyone unless in our defence and here in writing. We don't make sarcastic or damning comments on social media about people who are unable to defend themselves; that's for the amoeba brained cowards. Stones and glass houses! Some failed to get the February message to Be Kind!
A new word has also arisen on social media by them, REPUTABLE! Wow! I am quite aghast considering past behaviour and the recent documented saga of a litter from a Dam with diagnosed Hereditary cataracts, which the eye certificate had seemingly been altered by the breeder.This had been shared on social media but has since been deleted. It really is incredible how very dubious practices are accepted when a popular person is involved, they are actually protected. Others would without doubt be annihilated. Sire was advertised on the LCGB website.
People I have never heard of, some even in Canada are now joining in on social media, while it's not something that I have time for, people are very quick to inform me of items that appear and of which I would not be privy to. Who is the puppeteer? It must be someone very powerful or wealthy, or both 🤔 Could it all be just sycophantic as we have surmised in the past 😉
November 2020- As I previously pointed out not so long ago, most websites advertised on the LCGB are no longer available. Since I mentioned this, people looking on social media for breeders of Leonbergers, are now being asked to contact the secretary direct who has a list of upcoming litters. Now, considering today's climate for breeders with new laws and HMRC involvement; it is my opinion that this is an unscrupulous way to be directing people to purchase puppies. Friends or no friends. Breeders should be transparent and above the radar, it should be up to professional bodies to ensure that this is the case from their members. In this instance, they could be seen to be aiding and abetting poor breeding ethics and allowing their friends to flout current breeding laws? If breeders are unable to afford a website, they shouldn't be breeding! Just an opinion 🤔
The increased price of Leonbergers has apparently become quite a topic of interest recently on social media. Many complainants who have lived and are living a good life on money "extorted" from the general public in one way or another.
Leos have always been underpriced here in the UK and we have been guilty of this ourselves in the past and being unable to break even.
2020 has seen an increase of all breeds, mostly the cross breeds which can fetch ridiculous amounts of money.
Leonbergers were always around £500 less than a Newfoundland puppy. These are now £3000 and upwards which means that Leo pups should be averaging around £2500. Bernese are being advertised for up to £5000, they obviously value their breed.
When breeders are putting so much money and effort in to their blood lines in using foreign dogs and importing dogs, in the name of genetic diversity, then this price can be justified. To sell at a low price, undervalues the breed and increases the risk that pups will be bought, and sold on at a higher price to who knows where? We certainly don't want that scenario for our pups but if people wish to take that risk, that's their business. As for expensive dogs being stollen, I would like to see someone move one of our loyal and faithful dogs when they don't wish to be moved. Aslan is so devoted to his Dad that even I couldn't steal him.
We have no policing system here in the non communist UK, that specifies any price for Leonbergers. Is it lawful to set a price? Should the club check the legal status on this before they write such on their website? It's not been seen in any other breed as far as I know? It is an individual, rightful decision for the breeder. It would be extremely narcissistic for anyone to dictate otherwise. If breeders who don't import or don't use diverse lines and whose breeding is from mostly common lines with high COI, then they should charge a lower price. In this instance, they must be honest with their prospective puppy owners. The public also have a choice and should not be insulted for wanting a dog who is maybe better bred than another! The pedigree is the evidence of this, not someone's word.
We have had so many people over the years asking why the Leonberger breed are so cheap to buy compared to other breeds and crosses. Maybe customers think there is something seriously wrong with the breed?
If people cannot afford to pay the correct going rate for a Leonberger, they certainly cannot afford to keep one for the years of it's life. The argument seems to be (keep them priced low and affordable) They are affordable to the type of clientele that we require and we won't be changing our price.
There have been a couple of breeders connected to the club, falsely advertising cheaper Leonberger pups that don't exist. It is shameful that these practices seem to be endorsed as the club was mentioned in one advert. One would now expect to see these people applying for breeding licences as they could have a huge demand for their cheap puppies, hope they are able to satisfy this demand.
In 2010, we actually paid £4000 for a breeding female, purchased from a committee member of the LCGB. Worth every penny I must add. For another dog we had to pay a breeder an extra £20 for an ear tattoo that we didn't want. We were taking this boy to the vet for a microchip and serology blood test as we required a passport to take him to Spain. I doubt she paid this much for the tattoo and would guess that she made profit on that alone, which is ok, but don't tell others they can't make a profit.
I have ment on previous occasions of the hypocrisy from people in this club, here is yet another example: pontificating to people on what they can and cannot do, while having a completely different and acceptable rule for themselves. I do wish they would think before they write and not continually provide this ammunition.
Not really expecting anything different from the Leo world than our experience over the last 11 years. 2010 to be precise, although animosity began when we had Siska in 2008.
Our experience with these two people was written about on another website in 2015, only taken down end of 2020. It would seem this still needs to be live so that new gang members can be reminded of the history. Coming soon!
It is very disappointing to learn that a previous friend and current committee member, offered a free puppy by us in 2012, goes on to make judgemental comments that she knows are completely dishonest from her actual experience of us. At no point does she mention this generous offer when she is giving back up to the people who were able to further her social status. Just the negative aspects to appease them. I know from my, experience of daily two hour phone conversations with her for four years, that current topics are exhausted, there is no necessity to write on social media, other than as a signal of which side you deferred to. Future disingenuous comments will prompt a further response here.
Another former friend and gossip in Northern Ireland (there were only ever 5) is getting brave by using my initials in comments. I might have to begin a new page in response 🤔
Ouch! the truth don't half hurt. It's ok for the mendacious to make snide comments "Look who the mentor is" and to gee up their army, but don't like it when they get my response here. Nothing hidden, all in view to anyone wishing to read. No army behind me, no puppy owners making derogatory remarks about people or the history they know nothing about. Transparent and honest!
People who are cruel to animals are invariably cruel to people too!
A copy of the LCGB code of ethics is below. Just a reminder to what the general membership and Committee members have agreed to. Many are in continuous breach of these code of ethics on FB and it is condoned by the club.